In the latest episode of the Revenue Leadership Podcast, I sat down with Kyle Lacy, CMO at Jellyfish and former CMO at Lessonly, to explore how revenue leaders can create alignment between their sales and marketing teams. Known as the “Bad Boy of SaaS Marketing” - a name that I gave him 2 minutes before recording - Kyle has built a career that blends creative brand marketing with a sharp focus on driving measurable revenue outcomes. We dove deep into the CMO's view on creating revenue alignment and what marketing executives look for in their sales counterparts. His insights are invaluable for anyone striving to unify these often disjointed departments.
The Evolution of a Brand Marketer
Kyle’s journey from content marketer at ExactTarget, through a successful stint in venture capital at OpenView, to leading marketing at two high-growth SaaS companies, is a study in growth. While he identifies as a brand marketer at heart, Kyle has evolved to embrace a revenue-centric approach. “I’ve learned that to get a seat at the table—especially in the boardroom—you have to connect brand initiatives to revenue outcomes,” Kyle shared.
This non-dual approach is a key theme in his leadership style and something that many leaders miss. He emphasizes the importance of creating experiences that surprise and delight customers while also delivering measurable impact. Kyle’s approach underscores that a robust marketing strategy doesn’t have to sacrifice creativity on the altar of performance metrics.
The CRO’s Role in Sales and Marketing Alignment
For revenue alignment to truly work, both sales and marketing leaders need to redefine their relationship. Kyle points to a memorable quote from Udi Ledergor, CMO at Gong: “Marketing’s job is to make sales easier. Sales’ job is to support marketing to take risks.” This encapsulates the essence of collaboration—marketing builds the stage, and sales performs on it.
Kyle urges CROs to be champions of creativity, even when it feels risky. “Sales leaders can be risk-averse and short term oriented,” he explained, “but supporting bold marketing initiatives like a billboard campaign or a splashy event can yield incredible long-term benefits.” He attributes much of this hesitation to differing time horizons: while sales often focuses on short-term quotas, marketing bets, especially brand-building, take longer to pay off. I found this to be a very clarifying perspective.
Shared Metrics, Shared Success
One of Kyle’s most actionable suggestions for fostering alignment is to blur the traditional budgetary lines between sales and marketing. He shared an example of how he and a former sales leader approached planning: “We combined our budgets and built one cohesive pipeline plan. The result was a more integrated, innovative approach to demand generation.”
To make this work, Kyle advocates for regular collaboration on shared metrics like pipeline coverage and conversion rates. He emphasizes that it’s not just about hitting numbers but ensuring that both teams understand and agree on the goals. I also loved his opinion that "marketing leaders shouldn't celebrate hitting a lead gen target when sales misses its booking target."
Rethinking Attribution and Budget Allocation
Attribution models are a perpetual pain point in sales and marketing dynamics. Kyle’s philosophy? “Attribution is an input, not the gospel truth.” While it’s important to measure what’s working, rigid adherence to one model can stifle innovation.
Kyle’s budgeting framework—the 70/30 or 80/20 rule—is particularly illuminating. “Eighty percent of the budget should focus on creating pipeline and driving bookings,” he explained. “The remaining 20 percent is for brand-building activities that are harder to measure but crucial for long-term growth.” This approach ensures that creativity isn’t sacrificed at the altar of ROI while keeping the focus on pipeline performance.
Building Trust Between Sales and Marketing
Finally, Kyle addressed one of the most overlooked aspects of alignment: trust. “Misalignment often stems from a lack of shared understanding,” he said. He recounted how he and his sales counterpart at Lessonly co-authored a ‘Revenue Handbook’ that outlined service-level agreements (SLAs), scoring models, and shared KPIs.
This transparency fostered a collaborative environment where both teams were accountable. “The best marketing leaders care about what sales leaders care about,” Kyle emphasized. “They’re willing to have tough conversations and focus on more than just top-of-funnel metrics.” Sales executives need to reciprocate. A personal relationship matters a lot here as well.
The Future of Brand in SaaS
As we wrapped the conversation, Kyle reflected on the role of brand in the AI era. With AI commoditizing content creation, differentiation will come from authenticity and quality. “Great storytelling is timeless,” he said. “The medium might change, but the need for creativity and connection remains.”
Kyle’s closing advice to CROs? Embrace the art of marketing as much as the science. By supporting bold initiatives, fostering trust, and focusing on shared outcomes, sales and marketing leaders can unlock new levels of growth and innovation.
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